Maybe it’s time to move on from 12v being the “high power” standard in PCs to something higher. Similar to how cars are slowly shifting away from 12v accessories. 48v would cut the current on the wires and connectors significantly.
48v is the obvious fix because it would let them piggyback on all the design work already done by the auto industry for its own 12->48v transition.
We successfully shifted the GPUs responsibility from the 3k-4k€ GPU to the 200€ PSU. Fuck Nvidia.
Eh, it’s also the connector’s fault. Not saying they’re not to blame for creating junk, but it’s a bunch of companies (pcisig) who created the standard. Even Sapphire’s implementation is flawed.
Doesn’t change the fact that historically balancing the wires on the connector was the job of the GPU. Arguably the connector spec should include who should load balance the wires, it didn’t and afaik it doesn’t, but the established practice was that the GPU takes care of it.
It was Nvidia that designed the original connector and forced it upon the world. PCI has been trying to make it less bad, but it was standardized after it had already been created, not the other way around.
Overcurrent protection on each pin should definitely be mandated by the standard.
But it’s important to keep in mind that Nvidia has 90% market share and can do whatever they want. If PCI standardized something Nvidia didn’t agree with, then there simply would not be any implementations of the standard, and Nvidia cards would use a non-standard connector. It’s that simple.
TBF, if you ask for power delivery in an unsafe manner, the PSU should say ‘no’…
GPUs shouldn’t be requesting power unsafely, that’s definitely something they should address as well; but the PSU shouldn’t be able/willing to comply either.
Definitely, but it’s impossible to do for everyone using an adapter.
Why can’t we just use more robust connectors (xt60 for example)? Or higher voltages? Trying to send low voltage, high current through a bunch of tiny connectors and hoping none of them melt seems silly. Is it just because no one wants to challenge the standard?
Better connectors cost more money, as do DC transformers.
Changing either one requires industry consensus.
3x pcie connectors (3x 150w) + 75w from the x16 rail gets you to 525w. Scrape together 50 more and that’s a 5090s max advertised power draw.
XT connectors are designed for two big conductors.
But you actually end up needing a lot more copper than you do when using several smaller wires, to carry the same current.
Large wires are also a lot less flexible.
ATX connectors have been fit for purpose for decades. It’s only this latest addition that seems to push things too far.
XT connectors are designed for two big conductors.
Most of these melty connectors are only carrying 2 rails, 12v+ and ground. There isn’t a need to have 12 connections do the same thing as 2.
No. But you can get away with less material if you do.
The amount of copper required to carry 500 watts over 12 connectors is a lot less than 500 watts over two connectors.
I know that is true for AC stuff, but is it for DC?
Also these are high end, $500+ video cards, is another $5 in material going to change much?
Yes.
And yes. The cables don’t come with the GPU. 5$ more for every new PSU made is not a drop in the bucket.
And I don’t think you realize how thick, cumbersome, and stiff, two sole conductors that can do 500W at 12V would be.
The only reason mains power cables are so thin, is because they operate at 120-240V, allowing the amps (and the stress on the cable) to be fairly low. (It being AC also helps, the problem is WORSE with DC)
To do 500W at 12V, you need truly massive cables. And it gets exponentially bigger the more these cards pull.
In fact, the XT60 would not be enough. It can handle bursts of the 700 watts a 5090 can pull, but to deal with the fact that these GPUs pull that continuously, you need to go all the way up to an XT120.
standards exist for backwards compatibility, it would be pretty annoying to not be able to use a new GPU with my decade old PSU and passive adapters.
