imo macOS is better value than Windows. A Windows PC of similar quality to what Apple offers (built quality and specs) is not that much cheaper and with a Mac you get a ton of actually usable software included.
Obviously FOSS still wins offering a ton of good software for free, lots of choice and the option to choose from hardware at any price point. But Windows is just bad unless you’re an enterprise user or gamer (and the latter is changing fast in Linux favour).
I think macs are more comparable when you compare OEM PC to OEM PC. I’ve specced out a few optiplexes for clients and all have been over a grand each. I wouldnt spend that much on my own computer but I know how to pick a good used computer or build my own if I so desire. The clients just want a computer they can forget about for a decade and yell at Dell when it breaks so Optiplex it is.
How much does a Mac Mini cost? $800 for a variant with 512GB of storage. Literally cheaper than a similar Dell Opitplex
I guess for desktops you have a point, especially if you build it yourself. I was thinking of laptops mostly and also considering the build quality and things like the keyboard/trackpad, screen and speaker quality. If you want something comparable running Windows the price difference isn’t going to be massive.
You can buy a top CPU laptop then upgrade or even pay to upgrade with high quality ram and storage modules and you would still be paying less than an equivalent Mac. Which you can’t upgrade of course, because the only option is buying as is out of the gate. No matter what Apple says, 32 GB of ram simply doesn’t cost $300, their pricing is meant to fleece customers.
Is there a particular model you’re thinking of? Not just the line. I usually find that Windows laptops don’t have enough cooling or make other sacrifices. If you want good cooling, good power (CPU and GPU), good screen, good keyboard, good battery, good WiFi, etc., the options get limited quickly.
Even the RAM cost misses some of the picture. Apple Silicon’s RAM is available to the GPU and can run local LLMs and other machine learning models. Pre-AI-hype Macs from 2021 (maybe 2020) already had this hardware. Compare that to PC laptops from the same era. Even in this era, try getting Apple’s 200-400GB/s RAM performance on a PC laptop.
PC desktop hardware is the most flexible option for any budget and is cost-effective for most budgets. For laptops, Apple dominates their price points, even pre-Apple-silicon.
The OS becomes the final nail in the coffin. Linux is great, but a lot of software still only supports Windows and Apple; Linux support for the latest/current hardware can be a hit or miss (My three-year-old, 12th-gen Thinkpad just started running well). If the choice is between Mac OS or Windows 11, is there much of a choice? Does that change if a company wants to buy, manage, and support it? Which model should we be looking at? It’s about time to replace my Thinkpad.
Running LLMs is not a feature that 99% of users need or want. Look at all the AI laptops flopping in sales. People don’t care about RAM soldered to the motherboard to squeeze a milisencond on a feature they don’t use. It’s a money grubbing strategy, plain and simple.
imo macOS is better value than Windows. A Windows PC of similar quality to what Apple offers (built quality and specs) is not that much cheaper and with a Mac you get a ton of actually usable software included.
Obviously FOSS still wins offering a ton of good software for free, lots of choice and the option to choose from hardware at any price point. But Windows is just bad unless you’re an enterprise user or gamer (and the latter is changing fast in Linux favour).
Have you ever built PCs? Macs are significantly more expensive for the same spec
The rest I agree with, it doesn’t help that Windows has been steadily going downhill with each new version…
I think macs are more comparable when you compare OEM PC to OEM PC. I’ve specced out a few optiplexes for clients and all have been over a grand each. I wouldnt spend that much on my own computer but I know how to pick a good used computer or build my own if I so desire. The clients just want a computer they can forget about for a decade and yell at Dell when it breaks so Optiplex it is.
How much does a Mac Mini cost? $800 for a variant with 512GB of storage. Literally cheaper than a similar Dell Opitplex
I guess for desktops you have a point, especially if you build it yourself. I was thinking of laptops mostly and also considering the build quality and things like the keyboard/trackpad, screen and speaker quality. If you want something comparable running Windows the price difference isn’t going to be massive.
You can buy a top CPU laptop then upgrade or even pay to upgrade with high quality ram and storage modules and you would still be paying less than an equivalent Mac. Which you can’t upgrade of course, because the only option is buying as is out of the gate. No matter what Apple says, 32 GB of ram simply doesn’t cost $300, their pricing is meant to fleece customers.
Is there a particular model you’re thinking of? Not just the line. I usually find that Windows laptops don’t have enough cooling or make other sacrifices. If you want good cooling, good power (CPU and GPU), good screen, good keyboard, good battery, good WiFi, etc., the options get limited quickly.
Even the RAM cost misses some of the picture. Apple Silicon’s RAM is available to the GPU and can run local LLMs and other machine learning models. Pre-AI-hype Macs from 2021 (maybe 2020) already had this hardware. Compare that to PC laptops from the same era. Even in this era, try getting Apple’s 200-400GB/s RAM performance on a PC laptop.
PC desktop hardware is the most flexible option for any budget and is cost-effective for most budgets. For laptops, Apple dominates their price points, even pre-Apple-silicon.
The OS becomes the final nail in the coffin. Linux is great, but a lot of software still only supports Windows and Apple; Linux support for the latest/current hardware can be a hit or miss (My three-year-old, 12th-gen Thinkpad just started running well). If the choice is between Mac OS or Windows 11, is there much of a choice? Does that change if a company wants to buy, manage, and support it? Which model should we be looking at? It’s about time to replace my Thinkpad.
Running LLMs is not a feature that 99% of users need or want. Look at all the AI laptops flopping in sales. People don’t care about RAM soldered to the motherboard to squeeze a milisencond on a feature they don’t use. It’s a money grubbing strategy, plain and simple.
Did you purposely miss the first and last questions: Which laptop is the good value?
I never said people need to run LLMs. I said Apple dominates high-end laptops and wanted a good high-end to compare to the high-end Macbooks.
Instead of just complaining about Apple, can do what I asked? Best cheaper laptop alternative that checks the non-LLM boxes I mentioned: