Edit: It works! Not beautiful and shows a concerning amount of “Error” lines on startup but it will do. I got VSCodium and ESP-IDF running, at least – and CMake isn’t awfully slow despite it being a crappy 4GB RAM machine (not easily upgradeable). The first boot took a while and I haven’t rebooted since, I guess it will be below 30 seconds next time (Mint on same machine but HDD was about 1 minute).
Edit: I hope I chose the right kernel here, surprisingly not much info online on this! Also, I picked “targeted” because the 10-year-old system does not use any cutting-edge hardware and all drivers should be auto-detected, I think.
After some experience with Linux Mint, I gathered the courage to try another distro. I’d like to turn an old laptop into an IPTV receiver plus FTP/OpenVPN/HomeAssistant server with occasional desktop use. I first installed Windows 11 just in case my family needs to use it (it fucking sucks, the built-in PS/2 keyboard doesn’t work half the time but that’s an issue for later) but now I’ll be turning it into a dual-boot setup with Debian as the primary option. Please give me some encouragement, I’m really afraid of new things.
Old pic: https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/d4bf0222-4fc1-42ab-a3e9-464087dec3af.png
VSCodium
Try Kate.
(The real answer is probably emacs/vim but I’m not that cool.)
It’s Debian. Let us know when you have your first real issues with it, probably some time in 2037.
Don’t be too hopeful, it will probably be the upgrade to Debian 14 in 2030. And the issue will probably be: yes, you need to change the repo and then full-upgrade.
I had some getting it to run on a Chuwi HI8 but the thing is a terrible tablet-PC pretending to be a terrible Android tablet…
I had a fair amount of issues back in the day due to debian having limited support for newer hardware with proprietary drivers. I wouldnt be surprised if that still a thing given Debian’s modus operandi.
Debian now prompts users if they want non free drivers in the installer, and the installer it self comes with them so it can boot on platforms that require it, non free drivers and firmware are also in a seperated repository to non-free and enabling them is independent, selecting non free drivers in the installer will enable the non free driver and firmware repository
Good question. It seems like Debian has been speeding up a bit. The software is still a bit older, but it’s not too far behind compared to some other Debian releases. I switched and it’s been rock solid, despite me running a Trixie Backports system.
See my newest comment with the monospaced text.
But yeah, not a real issue, I fixed it in 15 minutes. Apparently it was foolish of me to want Num Lock on the lock screen (Czech keyboard layout uses the number row for diacritics).
Edit: Now I fixed that too. I can easily use numbers in my password now!
You don’t need luck. You chose wisely.
I hereby grant the application for luck. May your linux boot,
You make it sound religious. Did i join a religion deccades ago and not knowing it?
If we say yes, do you think we can get tax exemptions?
The first rule of the church of tux is to talk about the church of tux 🙏
I use arch btwnot really
It will do this just once
Guess what, you’re right! Technically, it does boot but
Debian GNU/Linux 13 mmpc tty1 mmpc login: _does not bring joy.
Also, why is the fan spinning? I’ve been on this screen for minutes while looking up lightdm troubleeshooting on my phone. Blinking the cursor and Linux backend stuff can’t be too CPU-intensive, right?
Edit: fixed. I had broken lightdm by adding the numlockx on script in the wrong place, too eager to get a lock screen with an enabled Num Lock
I haven’t restarted it since but it has brought joy. It’s not pretty but way less setup hassle than Windows if you want it at least somewhat privacy-respecting. And even default XFCE beats Windows 11 on looks and practicality.
I love Debian. Been using it on my laptop for over a year. Some specific drivers are a little fiddly if you have nvidia graphics but it’s not too bad, lots of good info on the debian wiki.
Some specific drivers are a little fiddly if you have nvidia graphics
Nit-picking here but Nvidia drivers for Debian are ridiculously easy to install? Doc page
- Prerequisites
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ trixie main contrib non-free non-free-firmware deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ trixie-security contrib non-free main non-free-firmware sudo apt update- Install the driver (Trixie)
sudo apt install nvidia-kernel-dkms nvidia-driver- Have an RTX capable GPU?
sudo apt install libnvoptix1Edit: For an Nvidia Optimus Laptop just install
envycontroland set your Nvidia GPU as your primary GPU.sudo envycontrol -s nvidia --force-comp --coolbits 24Done, easy peasy.
same here even though i don’t use it much anymore.
for me, it was both the distro that i had used the longest at home due to rock solid stability and it’s become a signal to me that the shop i’m considering working in has rock solid people working on it.
i’m going to miss working on debian in a professional capacity and watching it due it’s thing in real world production capacities for millions of people at a time.
You’ve used Debian for a while? Well, you might know something about one of the problems that were a factor in my hop from Mint: I installed a stable release in 2020 and used the computer as a MMPC every so often, but then I set up a DVI cable to the family Windows PC so the MMPC became redundant, and will be until we switch from satellite to IPTV next year. The computer lay mostly unused for 2 years and then it turned out that it wouldn’t update to a newer, supported release. I gave up troubleshooting that. What kind of distros are most prone to this?
you have to keep your sources up to date if you don’t check in regularly and most distros provide a means for doing so. chatgpt should be able to handle this and i think this applies to most distros as well.
I just wish Debian didn’t use apt. Got fuck I hate apt. With a fucking passion. FUCK APT.
Damn near every distro is fiddly with Nvidia graphics, they’re practically a criminal cartel, they give Nouveau 0 support (ok fine, lately a bit, but probably not enough)
No luck needed, it’ll go fine. You pretty obviously have all the experience you need.
Experience? Yes, but I’m also really clumsy and impatient. Lots of things, hardware and software, broke in my hands because I wasn’t careful enough. At least there is no personal data on the system right now that I could erase.
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You’ll have a hard time breaking Debian (unless you make a FrankenDebian) also FYI the Debian Installation Media has a built in Rescue environment for Debian under Advanced Options
That’s just part of learning sometimes.
Just a little warning if you boot both OS from the same drive. Windows update can and will break your bootloader at one point (if not worse, tho that’s rare). Keep a Linux live or rescue stick around in case something breaks.
Yeah, I know this, what a pain… I eventually had to install rEFInd on one of the PCs with dual boot.
My usual approach when trying Debian on a desktop or workstation: if I have to install a single package from testing or sid, fuck this and just use Arch or Fedora.
Just use distrobox as long as it doesn’t hinder much the program’s functionality or your convenience.
If it’s 10 year old hardware, you should be fine.
I’ve only had problems in Debian with brand new hardware where I have to use the backport branch to get drivers (like for wifi.)
Though mainly I use Ubuntu, where I would not have that problem. Not sure why you switched from mint.
I tried Mint on my old MacBook pro and it was really slow, impossible to scroll through a website slow. I then installed Ubuntu and had a wonderful experience
Weirdly, Debian currently has a newer version of Xfce than Linux Mint. Not everything on there is out of date.
This shouldn’t be a thing of luck, if you are prepared.
No, I’m absolutely not. What desktop environment should I choose? KDE Plasma is tempting - it would be nice to use it before I install it with Arch on my main system - but I don’t need the cutting edge or much personalization. I know XFCE best but GNOME is default… GNOME’s big launcher looks great for the TV but it’s also more resource-hungry and less customizable…
I guess I’ll go with the familiar Windows-style XFCE and maybe add big remote-friendly icons later when I configure an IR receiver.
What desktop environment should I choose
That’s the beauty … You can change any time you want (sudo tasksel) withjout losing your data. or install all of them and choose one each time you login
I have been using Gnome for a few weeks (because I have an issue with my tablet and Plasma works badly with it), and it’s shit. Very locked in, strange choices regarding how information is presented, waste of screen estate (topbar that sits completely unused)… Plasma was a million times better. If I didn’t have this tablet problem… anyway that’s my advice. Have fun. Debian is stable, you should be good
I love this, because I feel the complete opposite in some regards. I love the simplicity of GNOME. There are some weird UI decisions; I much prefer to have the dock available on the desktop than to use the application switcher every time, but that’s about it. GNOME is very thematically consistent, it’s simple, and it works smoothly. It has enough customisation where the sensible defaults fall short, at least for me, but theme-wise I really like Adwaita the way it is.
I use KDE on my laptop though, and I enjoy the tinkering with it. Feel like it’s fairly unstable though, Plasma just crashes at times when you tinker with it (though so far it’s never happened in normal usage). Design-wise it feels much too cluttered, but there’s a lot of options to play with to make things at least almost the way I’d like it.
We’re spoiled for choice, and that’s awesome. There’s something for everyone.
Yea to be frank I also love the simplicity of Gnome. I do apreciate its qualities. It’s consistent, I get that it tries to offer a streamlined experience. I find it sacrifices a lot to get there though. The lack of flexibilty (by default without extensions) wrt window/workspace management feels a bit crippling. I do appreciate the consistency. But that’s not enough for me to make up for other aspects. And for the overhanging feeling that it’s so strongly opinionated, it might just diverge from your sensibilities at some point, without warning.
Yea, the single fact that we’re able to talk about this is a testament to the choice… 👌🏼 Pretty cool. All in all I may like Plasma better, there are true dealbreakers that make its usage impossible for me (tbc). Anyway. For now I work under Windows11. Whatever works
I tried KDE plasma and I was blown away by how bad the UI design is. I struggled for like an hour trying to customize my desktop and it crashed a few times and even when it wasn’t crashing I was flummoxed by how unintuitive the customization UI is. I couldn’t get anything the way I wanted it and yes I agree: incredibly visually busy. I wanted to have a gnome alternative but it felt like beta software to me, and badly designed on top of it. Hard pass!
People who hate gnome so much always confuse me.
Yes, I can’t figure why
For me, I was a long term gnome 2 user and have used gnome 3 and various derivatives. Gnome 2 was still very customizable, but Gnome 3 was very prescriptivist. I feel like KDE gives me the ability to dial in my desktop quite a bit more and I really like dolphin and the KDE apps. With that said, I don’t hate Gnome. I’m glad it exists if only to encourage other DEs to keep getting better. I don’t see myself daily driving it, but I would gladly recommend it to a Linux beginner.
It seems like the answer might be something like “it’s too different from windows! 😡😡😡”
Yea sure 😁 think before you prejudice !
FYI, I’m not hating. Criticism should be a fine thing to do, enjoyed by all parties, respectful and all. See my other replies for my opinion. I swear it’s not terrible, and you’re free to discuss it.
Your other replies come off a bit more tempered admittedly. As for me, gnome annoys me in a few ways but I’ve adjusted to most of them and I just couldn’t get past the initial steps of customization on KDE. I would honestly prefer to have another option and to use both but I couldn’t see it working out for me. I’m like you, I definitely prefer that another option than my preference exists. Perhaps a future version will win me over. And even if not, choice is good.
KDE Plasma is very nice if you come from Windows and don’t mind an environment that’s somewhat heavy on performance - personally, I think it’s the closest, modern Windows-like experience. XFCE is very lightweight, but not very modern, as far as I remember.
Don’t forget, you can also install multiple environments and then pick one from your login screen; that way you can try them all and see what fits best
Well, you can try a Live CD for first contact. Or even a virtual machine, with a complete install of the operating system and desktop environment, without touching your actual system.
I’ve been using Debian with the default GNOME on an old laptop and main desktop and have been very happy with it. Coming from Windows I love that it’s way simpler and I don’t need to set a million options.
But remember the thing with Linux is you’re not locked into anything - So try GNOME or XFCE for a few weeks, then if you still want something else install and switch over to another desktop environment. You could even install all these desktop environments during the Debian install itself and just keep switching every time you log in.
I have used gnome, plasma, and xfce and they are all fine. I prefer KDE personally but they’re all going to do what you need to do. It’s all down to personal aesthetic preference, and picking one won’t hinder you in any real way. KDE to me just looks super nice out of the box for my taste, and I like the customization.
I recently helped a friend install Debian via sms, it was surprisingly easy, and she had never tried installing Linux before. When installing on a laptop I’d recommend using cable instead of wifi, and then setup wifi when the system is up and running.
Best of luck
Gee! How long did it take to transfer the iso via sms? Did you have to uuencode it?
🤣 🤣 🤣
Nah, he Base4017’d it. That’s Base64 plus all the emojis. It’s actually quite efficient.
I just made the switch from Win 10 to Bazzite Linux some two weeks ago. It worked so great that I should have done it a long time ago.
Mint is solid, if you use it and it works for you why change? Do you need to bother with windows? What do you use that can’t be done on Linux I wonder? Perhaps work out how to set a VM and try out Debian and even windows in a test sandbox so you’re comfortable with the processes before taking the plunge. Check out KVM, QEMU, and Virt-Manager.
I have worked with VMs before and still use an XP one sometimes. But modern Windows in a VM on an old laptop with 4 GB of RAM? I’ll pass…
Good luck! And don’t forget to add the non-free-firmware repo and maybe the other additional ones if you need them. A standard Debian comes without. And if you’re following an old tutorial, that might not cover the split between non-free and non-free-firmware which happened somewhat recently in Debian terms. Their own documentation is good and up to date, though.
Isn’t non-free-firmware included by default now?
the installer will prompt the user during install if they do or do not want to include it, the yes answer is selected by default, so I think that counts as defaults to
Good question. maybe I was wrong, I’ve used Debian for so long, I’ll either just update it or use the advanced installer… It’s certainly on the installation media now. Not sure if it copies it over to the system. Would make sense, though if it did…
Good question. maybe I was wrong
Yes, from Debian 12, non-free-firmware is default. Makes it even easier to install.
I like it so far.
