• The Stoned Hacker@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    17
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    2 days ago

    So people hate on systemd because they interpret it as an init system thats gone too far and has thus violated the unix principle. in reality systemd is an entire suite of tools based around a very feature rich and robust service management suite that also includes an init system. there is something to be said about the Linux ecosystem’s reliance on systemd, but there are no comparable tools. this is why Arch uses systemd. if you dont want to use systemd, you can use distros like Arco Linux; however currently Gnome no longer works on Arco

    • Verat@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      13
      ·
      edit-2
      1 day ago

      Part of the problem with it is that it is very difficult not to use it, for instance if your code uses dbus, that makes systemd a dependency and almost all of the tools are like this. Want to use alternate software with systemd init? A-OK! want to use systemd tools without systemd init? Too bad! This inter-dependence is what I think makes it break the unix philosophy, its components dont like to be replaced or used outside of the “intended” environment of systemd init, keeping it from being replaced without breakage on lot of systems.

      On my install for instance, systemd is roped in by xdg-user-dirs (and hence steam), flatpak, fcitx5, and cups. And that is just a few. So the init system isnt a problem to me, the lack of drop-in replacements for its suite of tools is.

      • The Stoned Hacker@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        9
        ·
        1 day ago

        I think the biggest problem is that developing each other underlying subsystems without the rest is a hassle. As such no one has come up with a non-systemd dbus replacement. But there is a lot that can be replaced. There are some systemd services i just turn off immediately woth new installs and use something else because they’re such dogshit (looking at you resolved).

        god i fucking hate systemd-resolved

        • lightsblinken@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          1 day ago

          +1 on systemd-resolved. dumpster fire of horribleness. i dont mind 99% of systemd subsystems, but this one tips me over the edge, hard.

          • The Stoned Hacker@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            1 day ago

            it pisses me off so much. what do you mean theres no way to set the priority of nameservers or to force them to be resolved in a specific order? no i don’t want a public nameserver thats only there as backup to take precedence over my local nameserver thats necessary for kerberos to work!

      • The Stoned Hacker@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        2 days ago

        if sysv init or open rc are ed and sed, then systemd is Visual Studio or Pycharm; they have some functionality that overlaps but they scopes of what they do are completely different