Systemd has simplified my life on a few occasions, and it seems to be reliable from what I can tell. At the end of the day if I can get the OS to do what I want in a relatively simple matter, that’s all I care about.
I don’t know what systemd is but this is pretty much how I picture all linux users.
Systemd is fine.
Journald is fine.
But someone pass me a mace I can beat systemd-resolved and systemd-logind to death with
EDIT: Oh come on
You’ll love resolved when you have to deal with split DNS ;)
Oh trust me I have. resolvconf and openresolve are awful too but for different reasons
Have one extra buzz from me as well. Screw RedHat and everything it does.
Well, now I do.
My biggest complaint with systemd…
Service xxx stop/start/restart is so much easier than
Systemctl stop/start/restart xxx
It fucking annoys me
I mean, you could write a shell function or script to just wrap it if it bothered you that much?
I’d rather complain
alias service="systemctl"Or even
alias s="systemctl"Note the order of the commands. I don’t mind typing aystemctl
service() { systemctl $2 $1 }
I love you all solutioning for something I don’t care enough about. I just find it annoying that systemctl reversed the order for some stupid reason.
Understandable, have a nice day
It seems like every Linux distro I’ve used both of those will work fine.
This must be why my post saying Linux made me gay got so many up votes.
I dislike systemd less than I dislike sysvinit, so it has that going for it.
I don’t know if I like how you’re characterizing furries. Not all of us do this, and I don’t do it… often.
I don’t get the systemd hate. The most common complaint I see is that it’s too bloated, but Arch uses it, so what gives? Is it just that people dislike change? Like Wayland hate (not Wayland frustration)?
From what I heard, people hate systemd because Linus Torvald was approached by the NSA to create a backdoor on Linux, he said it wouldn’t be possible to change the kernel because there were too many eyes on it, there was a mysterious hack of kernel.org introduced a mysterious code but it was spotted and removed… well, what was the only other thing common to all Linux? The sysv-init, but it was too small, too tight, too specific for them to create a backdoor there, they needed something big, bloated, doing way more than it should do, like it was just supposed to start the system but it can also do unrelated stuff like handling DNS, and an American company shows up bringing systemd, that solved all the problems the NSA had to create a backdoor on Linux, and all distros jumped into the honeypot :)
mind sharing some sources?
I read it once and couldn’t find the post again, but I managed to find some stuff:
The kernel hack was in 2003:
https://lwn.net/Articles/57135/There is no official communication between the NSA and Linus Torvalds. In 2013 when he was asked about a Linux backdoor for the NSA and said no while shaking his head yes, it’s officially considered just a joke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gRsgkdfYJ8Later that year his father mentioned it again… is it an official hearing? It seems like they are also questioning people from Microsoft, but I didn’t find info on that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwRYyWn7BEoIn 2022 a lot of information about Bvp47 came to light, a Linux backdoor NSA was using for more than 10 years - I didn’t find any info about this exploit being possibly because of systemd or not.
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/nsa-linked-bvp47-linux-backdoor-widely-undetected-for-10-years/Red Hat introduced systemd in 2010. My info about it being a subsidiary of a Big Tech was incorrect and I removed from my original message. It was only bought by IBM in 2018.
@grok, is this true?
and all distros jumped into the honeypot
As a filthy casual this is the most distressing part.
I’ve observed the situation shift in just a few years from
“
WinterSystemd is coming”To
“
WinterSystemd is here, it’s everywhere, and i hate it”Lol strangely believable in these times.
Nice conspiracy theory.
Damn, really make sense. Especially nowadays a lot of distros now defaults to systemd.
Generally I see a few:
- People wanting the highly deterministic, but slower behavior of the rc scripts.
- People liking the fact that the rc startup was generally almost entirely defined in plain script files
- Some folks criticizing certain opinionated things in systemd, as systemd delves deeper into things like capabilities and users.
- Systemd can sometimes be a bit weird about how it does/does not capture stdout/stderr as one might guess in some situations.
- Some folks not liking the journald angle of binary-only files
Mainly the last point is the only one I personally find potentially aggravating, but since I never really am in a broken system without journalctl I’m not too bothered by it. I have saved myself some effort thanks to systemd including stuff that the daemons used to provide for themselves.
People wanting the highly deterministic, but slower behavior of the rc scripts.
This is literally it for me. I got to work on an alpine system and it was like a breath of fresh air - I could edit the service script files directly. So easy, so little abstraction
So people hate on systemd because they interpret it as an init system thats gone too far and has thus violated the unix principle. in reality systemd is an entire suite of tools based around a very feature rich and robust service management suite that also includes an init system. there is something to be said about the Linux ecosystem’s reliance on systemd, but there are no comparable tools. this is why Arch uses systemd. if you dont want to use systemd, you can use distros like Arco Linux; however currently Gnome no longer works on Arco
Part of the problem with it is that it is very difficult not to use it, for instance if your code uses dbus, that makes systemd a dependency and almost all of the tools are like this. Want to use alternate software with systemd init? A-OK! want to use systemd tools without systemd init? Too bad! This inter-dependence is what I think makes it break the unix philosophy, its components dont like to be replaced or used outside of the “intended” environment of systemd init, keeping it from being replaced without breakage on lot of systems.
On my install for instance, systemd is roped in by xdg-user-dirs (and hence steam), flatpak, fcitx5, and cups. And that is just a few. So the init system isnt a problem to me, the lack of drop-in replacements for its suite of tools is.
I think the biggest problem is that developing each other underlying subsystems without the rest is a hassle. As such no one has come up with a non-systemd dbus replacement. But there is a lot that can be replaced. There are some systemd services i just turn off immediately woth new installs and use something else because they’re such dogshit (looking at you resolved).
god i fucking hate systemd-resolved
+1 on systemd-resolved. dumpster fire of horribleness. i dont mind 99% of systemd subsystems, but this one tips me over the edge, hard.
it pisses me off so much. what do you mean theres no way to set the priority of nameservers or to force them to be resolved in a specific order? no i don’t want a public nameserver thats only there as backup to take precedence over my local nameserver thats necessary for kerberos to work!
So you’re saying systemd is the emacs of init?
if sysv init or open rc are ed and sed, then systemd is Visual Studio or Pycharm; they have some functionality that overlaps but they scopes of what they do are completely different
I’m more frustrated with GNOME devs sabotaging Wayland.
I’m more frustrated with GNOME devs…
Say no more!
That is a self-inflicted wound caused by how Wayland was designed, particularly the part where they offloaded so much responsibility onto the different compositors.
@JackbyDev @nutbutter
People dislike unwanted change. Imagine, you are using some distro for years, and after some update everything changes and you cannot configure system usual way. Many software is changing behaviour You need read tons of docs to change something or worse, while your system hang at boot.
My first try using systemd ended in kernel hang after too much systemd’s dmesg flooding (that was slow arm board, so it’s unlikely someone might help me with debugging it)
But yes, many people just hate systemd because it was forced change, not even because it’s too complexI’d argue that the systemd trend actually is the one that’s change-adverse.
I remember that before systemd there was a lot of innovation when it comes to init systems… the flexibility of the script-based inits made it so most distros had their own spin. And there was more diversity in components that now are part of systemd. I’d argue that ever since systemd became the de-facto standard, innovation in those areas has become niche. Distros are becoming more homogeneous and less open to changes in that sense. Some components are becoming more and more interdependent and it’s becoming harder to ship, for example, Gnome, without systemd.
Used systemd for years; realistically my first init.
Switched to Gentoo.
Switched to OpenRC.
Lost logs at work on a server.
Some small inconveniences show up on systemd.
Yea, systemd is not that great.
There are people saying they don’t want to care about an init system, but it’s the same attitude as of those who don’t care about what car they drive. Yes, it gets the job done, but that’s not good enough for me.
I want the job done properly.
I still don’t get what you guys have against Windows. Bill Gates has done so much good for the world.
(My body is ready.)
I don’t mind all the ads, they’re always for things I was just thinking I needed to buy anyway.
Wow there, easy, you’re gonna end up on ER.
At the very least take a smal phone.
Razzzzz
Bill Gates actually was pretty cool, it’s windows after Bill Gates that’s terrible. I can’t say there was anything Bill Gates did that I didn’t like, he was like the Gabe Newell of operating systems before steamdeck.
Put your phone on vibrate, etc…
Rule 34:
If there’s a user base, there’s buttplug.io support…
“I know my playerbase.” -Hakita, the dev of Ultrakill
Error: That number is already picked for a different rule. Please select a different number.
If you used the right amount of lube you wouldn’t have to force!
Maybe consider rule 33. ‘Lurk more its never enough’
That’s taken too.
Lurk more its never enough is rule 33.
https://rules.nebula-system.com/rule-33
Which you didn’t follow.
Let’s hope the user base is flared.
Listen, we’ve all done it.
We all have bash or fish or zsh aliases to do it in command.
We all love the feeling of a pulsing phone in our asses.
But we don’t talk about it.
But we don’t talk about it.
The first rule of FUDposting club.
